Sixty-Forty #2: Marth vs. Peach

Disclaimer: This article is based on the research and opinion of the writer and does not necessarily represent the opinion of Team Dignitas or its players.

The dynamics of the match-up between Marth and Peach are, in many ways, akin to what is seen in many other match-ups in Melee. Marth, the fast one, can get in against Peach quite easily and rack up lots of hits. Peach on the other hand, the floaty, can live to exuberantly high percents, and likewise rack up quick damage with the trump card attacks she has at her disposal. For these reasons, the Marth vs. Peach match-up is largely even, with Marth taking only a slight advantage due to his superior range, his speed, and his more reliable percent-building moves. Even so, Peach can throw Marth for a loop with her solid edgeguards and tricky recoveries, allowing both of these characters to royally mess each other up in battle.

Sets Used For Research:

Armada vs. Mew2King - GameTyrant Expo 2017, Winner’s Finals

Zain vs. lloD - Super Smash Con 2017, Loser’s Top 8 Qualifier

Mew2King vs. Armada - Canada Cup 2017, Loser’s Finals

Marth

Approach Options:

Marth can quite reliably approach from the air in this match-up. Forward-air and neutral-air are perhaps his most fundamental linear approach tools, with forward-air proving to be particularly useful when coming off of the ledge (Marth’s forward-air, as you’ll see, has a lot of uses in this match-up). If approaching from above, Marth should fall down with down-air or back-air, and if coming from below, Marth should approach with up-air. It is also common for Marth to approach Peach by double jumping in the neutral and then falling into Peach with an aerial, although this approach is best at low percents near center stage, where Marth doesn’t have to worry so much about losing a stock should Peach intercept his approach.

Though more unorthodox than his other aerial approaches, Marth can also get in against Peach by using a falling Neutral-B, especially if she is caught in her shield. Marth boasts a solid dash speed which allows raw approaches to work quite effectively. If Marth is looking for a more measured approach, then he can wavedash in with well-spaced down tilts, racking up light damage while also gaining helpful positioning. Finally, Marth can come in with dash attack, either knocking Peach down or sending her into the air for aerial follow-ups, depending on her percent.

Neutral Play:

One of the biggest factors determining Marth’s success or failure in this match-up is how well he handles turnip pressure from Peach, as he is particularly vulnerable to her turnips, and needs to mitigate their effects whenever possible. In the neutral, Marth should be prepared to double jump over turnips, maintaining a safe distance so that he doesn’t get punished for using his second jump. Catching turnips in the neutral isn’t a bad option, although it usually doesn’t prove to be particularly helpful. When recovering, however, catching turnips is a great way to ensure a safe return to the stage, as Marth can throw them back at Peach to keep an active hitbox ahead of him. If Peach attempts to throw a turnip at close range (which would almost definitely be a mistake on Peach’s part), Marth can crouch cancel it and easily punish her. Marth may also find it beneficial to Counter turnips (particularly when coming off of the ledge) or simply slice through them with forward-air. In addition, Marth may use Peach’s turnips to his own advantage by Up-B’ing into them during his own recovery, giving himself a second Up-B and a second shot at life.

Since Peach’s slow fall speed can make the timing on Marth’s aerial combos awkward, Marth can use Side-B to stall in the air and ensure proper timing for his attacks. Conversely, Marth can Side-B in the air to throw off Peach’s timing if she is trying to juggle him. Maintaining solid platform movement can make Marth’s approaches less predictable, while also making it harder for Peach to catch Marth with her slower moves, like her turnips.

When recovering, Marth should always prioritize snapping to the ledge rather than having to Up-B in a precarious situation. Dodging turnips while recovering is also a necessary skill for Marth to develop against Peach. Marth may choose to drop down and Up-B continuously to stall at the ledge, though he should be prepared to tech should Peach crouch cancel the hit of his Up-B and down smash him into the stage.

If Peach is coming off of the ledge, Marth can put himself in a good place to punish just about all of her options by merely spacing himself outside of her get-up attack range. Marth also ought to use aerials to space himself against a floating Peach, or down tilt to space himself against a grounded Peach. Because of Peach’s limited range, Marth can dash dance just outside of her range, positioning himself to capitalize on the first opening Peach gives him without being particularly vulnerable himself. And as a smart defensive technique, Marth should have the presence of mind to dash away immediately upon dropping a combo, so as to avoid a quick down smash from Peach.

Punish Game:

Marth’s grab is one of his bread-and-butter options against most characters, a fact which holds true, to an extent, against Peach. Heck, he can outspace Peach’s down smash and still grab her due to his huge grab range. Down throw, back throw, and forward throw all have limited potential as combo or tech chase starters (with these follow-ups naturally being easiest at lower percents), as well as the ability to force Peach offstage and set up for edgeguards. While it is difficult for Marth to directly follow-up after an up throw, it can at least force Peach in the air and allow for juggling if Marth is able to read Peach’s aerial movement correctly. It can also act as a last resort kill move if Peach is at super high percents. Any time Peach is in the air, up-air is a solid juggling tool. Up-B can also be used to deal quick damage against a Peach who is in the air, or it can be used as a “get-off-me” move against an aggressive Peach.

Marth can initiate devastating forward-air strings on many stages, and forward-air can even kill off the top at very high percents. Down-air can act as a solid combo/tech chase starter onstage. Marth’s forward tilt can work to get surprise kills, though it should generally be used only as a mix-up, as it is far inferior to his other bread-and-butter move, tipper forward smash. Both down smash and up smash are decent options which can catch Peach off guard and score kills, assuming Marth hits with the tipper hitbox; the soft hit of Marth’s up smash can even combo into a forward smash. Finally, up tilt is a reliable kill option on small stages, and can be comboed into after a Side-B.

Edgeguarding:

Forward-air and back-air are Marth’s most basic tools for edgeguarding Peach, with down-air being another solid option offstage as long as Marth is not hit by Peach’s Up-B before his down-air comes out. Forward smash is another great move for catching Peach at the edge and securing kills off the side of the screen. Marth’s forward tilt can reach well beyond the ledge and is quite powerful if the tipper hitbox connects, making it another good option for killing Peach off the side.

If Peach is recovering from high and trying to maneuver her way to the ledge, down tilt is a solid move to catch her before she reaches the ledge. Keep in mind, down tilt is difficult to land if Peach is just coming from below and sweetspots the ledge, making it more beneficial for catching a Peach who is trying to fade to the ledge. In addition, well-timed jabs at the edge can eat Peach’s jump and set up for another edgeguarding move, like down tilt or down-air.

Stage Counterpicking:

Yoshi’s Story is undoubtedly Marth’s strongest counterpick in this match-up. His forward smash and up tilt can reach from below the stage’s lower platforms, and they act as reliable kill moves due to the tight blast zones on Yoshi’s. Marth gains similar benefits from Fountain of Dreams, although FoD’s high ceiling makes Marth’s easy-to-hit up tilt less reliable as a kill move. On both of these stages, Peach has practically nowhere to retreat from an aggressive Marth, as Marth’s fast speed and exceptional range allow him to cover the entirety of these stages with little difficulty.

The platform layout on Battlefield provides Marth with similar combo options, as he can also reach Peach from below the platforms and has a much easier time traversing the platforms than Peach. However, Battlefield’s wonky ledges can be particularly detrimental to Marth’s recovery, making this pick tertiary to the aforementioned stages; typically, it is seen as the starting stage in this match-up. For Marth, Final Destination acts as somewhat of a double-edged sword (Or is it double-edged Falchion?). On one hand, he can easily juggle and wall out Peach, as Peach struggles desperately to make an approach on this stage. That being said, Marth also suffers from severe Marthritis on FD, often struggling to kill Peach until close to 200%.  It is worth noting, however, that his dash attack approaches are particularly effective on FD, as Peach has no platforms to retreat to after being hit into the air.

The remaining two stages are the typical counterpick choices for Peach against Marth. Marth lacks the fast attacks or multi-hit moves necessary to allow him to flourish on Pokémon Stadium. However, he does get some of FD’s space with the added benefit of side platforms which can be used to extend combos, making Stadium fairly neutral when the transformations aren’t in play. While Marth’s combo game is alright on Dream Land, the platforms here are the least helpful among all of the stages with the triple platform layout. While the open space means he can easily avoid Peach in rare timeout scenarios, Peach’s seemingly never-ending stocks on this stage make it ultimately annoying and challenging for Marth to deal with Peach here.

Peach

Approach Options:

Because of her overall sluggish speed, both on the ground and in the air, patience is key for Peach if she is to do well in this match-up; her approaches will typically be based on reads, or require some level of commitment otherwise. Float cancelled aerials are solid approach tools for Peach to utilize, with a float cancelled neutral-air or forward-air followed by a double jab being a common method of racking up quick damage against Marth. Peach’s forward-air is also particularly good for coming off of the ledge.

Due to Peach’s slow double jump, falling aerials are typically the best means of approaching Marth, with neutral-air, back-air, and forward-air all proving useful in this scenario. Neutral-air should be the go-to pick for rising aerial approaches, as it is quick and has a fairly large hitbox. Peach can also use up-air for rising approaches, although its small hitbox means the spacing must be much more precise for Peach to use it.

If Peach chooses to dash in for a grounded approach, grab and dash attack are decent options for starting off combo sequences. In order to get in against Marth more safely, Peach should throw turnips and follow behind them, keeping an active hitbox ahead of her and setting up for an easy combo if the turnip hits. Finally, Peach may be able to use Toad to get off the ledge, although she probably shouldn’t expect Marth to fall for this one very often. Therefore, it should probably be used rather sparingly.

Neutral Play:

Turnips are one of the key factors allowing Peach to do well in this match-up, so she should try to pull turnips early and often. After all, the more turnips Peach pulls, the higher her likelihood of pulling especially useful goodies, like Stitch Faces and Bob-ombs. Of course, Peach should have a good awareness of Marth’s positioning and tipper range so that she can pull turnips safely without getting punished. Once Peach has a turnip in hand, there are quite a few purposes which the turnip can serve. Most notably, she can throw them at Marth while recovering to keep him from edgeguarding her, or she can throw them into the air in the neutral in the hopes of setting up crazy turnip combos.

In general, it is good for Peach to float at ground level, allowing for quicker aerial punishes. She should also be sure to float outside of Marth’s tipper range, especially when she is offstage and could be killed off the side by a tipper forward smash. Because Peach’s Up-B can leave her vulnerable for a long time before she lands, she should strive to be ambiguous with her recovery. This includes mixing up the direction to which she fades, when she puts the parasol down and puts it back up, and whether she will land on stage or on the ledge. When landing, it is also smart for Peach to float cancel an aerial and immediately put up her shield, ensuring that Marth doesn’t punish her landing. Air dodging is helpful when recovering to the stage if Marth is trying to edgeguard Peach aggressively. Peach can also air dodge to get out of Marth’s onstage combos, or simply double jump out of them and proceed to punish Marth with a double jump cancelled aerial.

As a general rule, Peach likes trades better than Marth, since she lives so much longer anyways. As a result, Peach can afford to risk trades more so than Marth can whenever the two of them are at equally high percents. When Peach is on the ground, dash dancing is crucial for making her slow grounded approaches ambiguous enough to be effective. Whenever Peach finds herself on a platform, she should always be prepared to put up shield, since she is particularly susceptible to Marth’s attacks when she is on a platform above him. One trick Peach can use to bait Marth is to briefly crouch, mimicking the motion for pulling a turnip, and then punish Marth for attempting to punish her faux turnip pull. And any time Peach is recovering from low, she should be ready to tech Marth’s down tilt or down smash in order to give herself a second chance at saving her stock.

Punish Game:

As in just about every other aspect of her strategy against Marth, Peach’s aerials play a significant role in her punish game. A neutral-air out of shield, or simply a raw neutral-air, does solid damage and tends to push Marth into unfavorable positions. Forward-air deals significant knockback, although Peach should remember that this move is easiest to land if she is already positioned slightly above Marth. Back-air is a quick option for punishing a Marth who has whiffed one of his aerials, and up-air is an incredibly strong choice any time Marth is above Peach. Peach’s Up-B can act as a decent get-off-me attack as well as a combo finisher, while dash attack is a solid grounded punish which can lead into tech chase scenarios.

Unsurprisingly, Peach’s down smash can be devastatingly powerful against a reckless Marth, while down tilt is a more low-key option which can pop Marth into the air and set up for strings of aerials. Peach doesn’t have many options off of grab in this match-up, making her grab only situationally useful. Basically, she can either try to gain some stage advantage for herself by forcing Marth away with forward throw, or she can try to connect a back-air or dash attack after a down throw.

A raw turnip throw can lead into further comboing, making it a decent option for punishing Marth. In addition, Peach can apply immense amounts of shield pressure by throwing a turnip and then positioning herself on the opposite side of Marth’s shield, making it incredibly difficult for Marth to avoid taking a hit upon dropping shield. If Marth is attempting to tech chase too aggressively, then Peach’s get-up attack can put him in precarious situations, especially if it he has attempted to continue his combo with a short hop aerial and the get-up attack eats his jump. A single hit jab, though weak on its own, can set up for a down smash or an aerial, making it a strategic option for ensuring the maximum amount of damage possible is accrued at each punish opportunity.

Edgeguarding:

Peach has quite a few tools in her kit for dealing with Marth’s rather linear recovery. Neutral-air at the ledge is a basic, but effective, edgeguarding tool, and Peach can combo into it after a down-air (a particularly useful tactic for hitting a Marth who is coming from below the ledge). Even if Marth dodges her down-air, Peach may still have enough time to float to where he has landed and send him back off with a neutral-air. Back-air can work similarly, although it should be used as more of a mix-up than anything. A forward-air at the edge can also be good for catching Marth as he returns to the stage, specifically when Marth is coming off the ledge, as Peach doesn’t want to risk getting hit by Marth’s Up-B before connecting with her somewhat slow-moving forward-air.

Naturally, Peach’s turnips can also be used for quashing Marth’s recovery. Peach ought to position herself above Marth and throw turnips down or z-drop them, making them incredibly difficult for Marth to avoid. Peach can also throw turnips at previously thrown turnips, creating a wall of turnips which will be even more challenging for Marth to dodge. After hitting Marth with a turnip, Peach should go straight for the ledge, as Marth will likely have to Up-B immediately (certainly so if the turnip hits him and eats his jump). Keep in mind, floating briefly at the ledge before grabbing it can help Peach get the proper timing for ledgehogging Marth.

Down smash at the ledge is great for sending Marth far offstage, though Peach should be sure to land the right hitbox, lest she send Marth back onstage. Peach can connect this down smash (or a down tilt) by crouch cancelling the hit of Marth’s Up-B at the ledge. Conversely, she can just go for these moves outright if Marth’s Up-B misses her altogether. Dash attack at the ledge can also be good for eating Marth’s jump and sending him offstage, where he will be hard-pressed to recover.  

Stage Counterpicking:

Dream Land is Peach’s most obvious counterpick in this match-up, primarily because of how hard it is for Marth to kill her on this stage, while she herself can secure edgeguards against Marth just as easily. There are other, more subtle reasons that this stage highly benefits Peach including: greater safety in the air than on any other triple platform stage; platforms that she can maneuver without too much difficulty and which Marth can’t utilize to extend combos as well as on other stages; and a larger space which grants her more recovery options, as it is harder for Marth to punish her for Up-B’ing or air dodging.

Unlike many other floaties, Peach actually does quite well on Pokémon Stadium, especially against Marth. Down smashes and float cancelled neutral-airs allow Peach to rack up quick damage on transformations, where she can also abuse some unique recovery options which Marth can’t abuse quite as easily. All the while, Peach still enjoys a pretty long life on this stage. Battlefield is somewhat neutral as far as platform stages go, although Peach can recover more easily than Marth on this stage. Still, Marth generally benefits from the platforms more so than Peach, making it less than preferable as a counterpick option.

Yoshi’s Story can work well for Peach, as Marth has practically nowhere to roll where Peach can’t cover his options and punish him. However, the fact that Marth can actually get consistently early kills here makes it a bad choice for Peach. Fountain of Dreams works similarly, allowing Peach to easily force Marth offstage with down smash, but also allowing for Marth to easily kill her, at least off the side. It is worth noting however, that Peach can Side-B into this stage continuously in order to recover from extremely low, giving her the ability to go super deep in order to edgeguard Marth. She can do the same thing on Final Destination, another stage where Peach can survive for quite a while. However, the fact that Peach can barely approach and has nowhere to retreat from Marth on FD makes it a pretty dangerous option for her to select.

Precision is key for Marth to do well in this match-up. With proper spacing, well-executed combos, and a solid onstage presence, Marth can make this match-up feel impossible for Peach if he plays perfectly. However, Peach, with her ability to seemingly rack up 800% with a single down smash or 8000% with a randomly pulled Stitch Face, can turn things in her favor quite quickly. This, combined with her solid aerial game, diverse edgeguarding toolkit, and disruptive turnips, allow her to keep things fairly even with Marth. Even when Marth is able to deal damage quickly with perfectly executed combos, Peach can often live comfortably to near 200%, as Marth cannot combo into his kill moves at high percents. As a result, this match-up can often be reduced to a stalemate. Ultimately, Marth’s success depends on his ability to get early tipper kills and edgeguards, while Peach’s success depends on her ability to play the long game and wall Marth out with her turnips and aerial pressure.

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