Let's Talk Doubles with Chillindude and ChuDat!

It was over 15 years ago when in a small town in Virginia, Chillin and Chu became friends and formed H2YL along with Azen and a few others. The crew ended up dominating the region all those years ago. They were regularly challenged in singles, doubles, and crews. Though they haven’t been teaming recently, the troublesome two have their fair share of doubles knowledge.

While Chillin plays Fox, considered to be one of the best characters in doubles and singles, Chu doesn’t change his main when switching over like many do and continues to play the regularly shunned Ice Climbers, known for their killer infinite wobble move that is rendered almost useless in doubles.

When finding a new doubles partner, what do you think the most efficient way to form new strategies are? What’s the most consistent way to get a synergy connected?

Chu: Find yourself a skillful player, especially one closer to your skill level. For instance, I’m ranked number 11 so I should maybe find someone in the top 20 range. It’s important that our comradery is decent. It helps us because we’re friends and communication is a huge key to doubles; it’s really hard to team with someone you have nothing in common with or if you don’t get along with them. If you don’t know how to communicate with your teammate, it’s harder. Secondly, if I team with someone new, to get a synergy going, I’d opt to go into training mode with my partner and practice 2V1 combos on a CPU for around thirty minutes to an hour to get them used to teaming with your character. I’m an Ice Climbers and a lot of people don’t know how their hitboxes work, such as people don’t know which way down-smash knocks the opponent, which is up and away at a diagonal angle. The lack of knowledge is much the same for Ice Climbers’ other moves so I’ll use those moves during our practice, so that when tournament arises, they can recognise where the opponent will go when they’re hit by me so we can then follow up with some combos!

Chillin: I agree, and to add onto that, even if they’re familiar with your character and are used to teaming with it a lot, it’s still useful as a lot of people have a different style. If you do 2v1 practice on a level one CPU, you can figure out what your teammate likes to do in certain situations; you can get a feel for their habits in-game. You can also do this in teams friendlies but it’s difficult because it can get too chaotic and it’s harder to focus on your teammate’s abilities and habits.

Which characters would you recommend for doubles and which would you steer away from and why?

Chu: I would recommend the top tiers, of course! Fox, Peach, Sheik… not so much Falco though, he’s on the lower end of the top tier list for me. Puff is pretty great too. The worst from the top tiers are Falcon and Falco because their recovery is bad and they’re easy to combo. I don’t think Falcon is that good in teams. I think he gets bodied by every single character in the game and because his recovery is awful, it puts your partner at risk because they're trying to save you constantly and then they can get baited into getting attacked. You don’t want to mess with the low tiers obviously. Pikachu can be good; he’s like a floatier Fox. I think Samus is low key really good; she can produce a wall. If anyone crosses that wall and if your partner is on board, you can mess them up really bad. Though, I’ve never really seen any Samus players try really hard to get really good with her in teams.

Chillin: Yeah, I think if any Samus players tried to take doubles really seriously with her, Samus could be pretty good. Her biggest weakness is she takes so long to recover so you’re leaving your partner in a 2V1 situation but it’s not that big of a deal overall. I think I agree with everything else though. What do you think about Yoshi? I think Yoshi is pretty good in teams honestly.

Chu: I haven't seen too much of Yoshi, I think Yoshi is okay but I can't really comment. I saw a small combo between Axe and Amsa where Amsa was able to neutral air his opponent backwards into Axe so that was great but Yoshi in general is a really good character.

Chillin: He lives a really long time too.

Chu: Yeah, that’s important. If he lives a long time too, it’s definitely beneficial for teams. I think also Luigi has an uppercut but gets bodied in teams slightly. I would definitely just stick with the top tiers like Marth, Fox, Peach. Be careful of Falco and Falcon.

Chillin: Falco is harder to use in teams than the other top tiers, for sure.

How do your characters translate into doubles and is it a good transition? If not, is there a particular reason you choose to not change character for doubles?

Chu: The way that my character translates into doubles... it’s really easy. I really like fighting people, I don’t rely on wobbling too much and I think wobbling makes the game too easy and it doesn’t sharpen my mind as much. I’m not as alert with people’s attacks if I rely on it. All I have to do in singles is shield grab and that’s the stock gone. Whereas in doubles, I have to be constantly alert. I have to set up attacks, read both opponents, look at my teams partner; so for my character personally, it’s more fun. On paper, Ice Climbers get worse in doubles but I feel that’s if you completely rely on wobbling in your game plan. Whereas I focus on fundamentals, fighting techniques, mind games, reads, so I find doubles thrilling and exciting with Ice Climbers and they don’t translate badly at all. Being good at singles definitely helps at being good at doubles too, but not vice versa.

Chillin: Well obviously I play Fox, who’s the best in singles and arguably gets even better in doubles, so it’s not too difficult to transition between the two. Fox has all the tools to be a great teammate; he racks damage very well, has amazing kill potential and can also assist his teammate in a variety of ways, particularly because he’s so quick.

What is the most important concept in Doubles?

Chu: Not to tunnel vision on one opponent that you're fighting. You can get killed off a single hit in doubles so you have to constantly keep an eye on everything. You could just get shined off the stage and that’s the stock gone.

Chillin: Awareness, for sure! I completely agree. Losing focus or focusing too much on one opponent can really hinder you in doubles.

When the match becomes chaotic, it’s easy to lose awareness, so how do you refocus yourselves and each other? Do you communicate to prioritise your next moves?

Chillin: I think communication helps; you obviously wanna stay aware the whole time but there are times you might not notice something. For example, if you notice your teammate is edgeguarding but the other opponent is coming down from the halo from their last stock, it’s generally not worth it for your teammate to continue the edgeguard just to get punished by the invincible person coming back on a fresh stock. So just in case your teammate is not aware, you can give them a little vocal nudge, “watch out” or just any key words you may come up with, with your partner.

Chu: Its all about helping each other out and getting back into neutral and if you get that first read, you’re golden, you can keep your awareness from there.


How does it affect you when you team with other players? For instance, teaming with another Ice Climbers or Fox that may not have the same playstyle that you’re used to or perhaps a different character altogether?

Chillin: I think some players are good at adjusting to different playstyles and others prefer to team with what they’re used to because they don’t adjust as well; whichever works for them, of course. Staticity can sometimes mess up certain doubles players as the moment they team with someone else, it becomes a weakness; they’re not used to the dynamic changes. It can be a curse and a blessing. It can be worth changing your playstyle sometimes to complement your teammate.

Chu: Usually whenever I play with other people, it usually goes very well. As long as they’re good in singles, it usually works out. If their communication is good and as long as we get along, it’s fine. The only time I struggle is if I’m teaming with people well below my skill level. I definitely do very well with different characters as long as they’re good. It’s rarely an issue. I’ve teamed with other players such as Ryan Ford, Westballz and Hungrybox and they can follow my shotcalling and it works out; they're all amazing players. It’s about being receptive and also listening to my shotcalling. If you’re not willing to listen to my shotcalling and you’re doing your own thing or you’re much lower ranked, then I’ll have issues. I won’t be able to carry as much. It's very important. That’s how I perform well personally. The interaction has to be there and you have to feel each other out and see what works best for you.

Though not the most unusual character pairing, do you feel that your characters synergise well together as a team; do they cover a lot of each other's weaknesses or provide strengths? If not, how do you make it work?

Chillin: They cover each other's weaknesses really well. Fox doesn’t have that many weaknesses but Ice Climbers can get comboed pretty hard and they can get edgeguarded pretty fast so he can help out the Ice Climbers effectively. Fox is fast enough to help out Ice Climbers in their time of needs, like when they're getting comboed. I think they have surprisingly good synergy.

Chu: The advantage that my character brings to the table is that there is two characters and I do a ton of damage. The down smash comes out very fast and people love to not pay attention in teams so it catches people out as they’re not aware. I can cover people well with strong attacks when they’re concentrating on the other character.

How do you determine which player to focus on? Is it based on their skill level as a player or the character they play in doubles?

Chu: Let's say I’m playing a Peach player that I usually beat, like a random Peach. Let’s say there’s also a Sheik player, pretend it’s Shroomed. Though the matchup is in my favour on paper against the Sheik and it’s bad against the Peach, I would rather focus on the Peach because I know I can beat them in the 1v1 and he’ll have no chance; he has no options or solutions to deal with me, so I can bully him and there’s nothing they can do, unless Shroomed takes charge and tries to intervene. So there’s different types of answers here but it depends on how large the skill gap is. Let's say it’s Armada’s Peach though, I then have no options against Armada.

Chillin: It’s both, sometimes the character matchup can override it, but I think the player matchup is more important. If you can dominate a player regardless of their character, then you’d go for it. It’s certain situations, like Chu mentioned Armada; if we go against UGS, I’m basically forced to go against Armada more as Chu’s Ice Climbers will struggle with the character matchup also, so I don’t have much choice.  Even if the team was Mango/Armada, even though Mango is crazy good too, Chu would have to go against him more because the matchup with Armada’s Peach is too difficult for Ice Climbers.

 

Do you take on certain roles during doubles such as an aggressor and support and does it change depending on the MU? Do your characters force you to assume one of these roles or do the roles have an element of fluidity to them in which you can change during the match?

Chu: It depends on what my partner is feeling. It’s complicated so I’d rather talk it out with my partner first. We can talk about what is more effective; however, it’s usually comes down to what my partner decides. I’m forced to stay in the back usually, I have no control over that. Most people want to go in and destroy people in doubles but there’s also certain situations where it’s different. Say I’m teaming with Hungrybox and his Puff is over 100%; I’m forced to be the aggressor because I need to make sure that he doesn't die. Roles are based on feeling; I don't have a deep understanding of roles, so for now, we just take roles based on feeling; such as the high percent example.

Chillin: I think it’s important to be able to change your role; you should never just stick to one role. There’s too many situations where you have to change. Fox would usually be the aggressor in an IC/Fox team but when a Fox is high percent, as Chu said, the Ice Climbers could step up and help out. I agree with the idea of feeling it out, and some characters lend themselves better to certain roles, but you should definitely have the fluidity of changing roles at any point necessary.


One of the most difficult situations in doubles comes in the last minute of a match where a teammate has to battle the other team alone in a 2V1; not only to survive but to defeat the opponents. What would be your advice to doubles enthusiasts when they’re in these situations?

Chu: You never want be in the middle of the both of them! They’ll take away all your options. You can’t roll either way because they’ll punish it. If you jump, they can catch it and combo. You always want to be to one side of them. They’ll try and force you into the middle. You can try and punish them if one of them tries to jump over you in an attempt to get you in the middle. Don’t focus on only one of them. You can’t leave yourself open in doubles. Using upthrow to upsmash, for instance, is bad because you then leave yourself open to the other player and then it’s game over. You have to use quick moves, like maybe upthrow back air instead.

Chillin: Agreed, laggy moves are a terrible idea in the 2V1 situation. You basically sign your stock away. Try to make it ambiguous as to which player you’re going for. If you go for the same player over and over, it becomes predictable enough for them to counter it and take away your stock. Switch up who you’re going for and make it hard to read. If you start comboing one of them, it can be worth it to drop the combo on purpose and catch the other player trying to come in and start attacking them instead. It’s unpredictable and you're still keeping an awareness on both of the players.


Is edgeguarding a floaty on the opponent team or is it wasting time and should you then 2V1 the other team mate while they’re off stage?

Chillin: I definitely think that it’s almost never worth it to try and continue an edgeguard on a floaty character when their teammate is still on stage. Because floaties take so long to recover you basically get a free 2V1 situation on their teammate, so it’s best to take advantage and try and mess their teammate up while they’re vulnerable.

Chu: Agreed!